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Guardian Changes are finally here ...
Lord of the Rings Onlinebut it's not good news for us full time tanks.

Guardian dev diary

Something's may make you think hrmm... nice change there but overall, it's a nerf due to their refusal to vastly change the class after these stat changes come in.

John is a sad panda.
Comments
#1 | John on 22 June 2011 15:07
Speaking as a Guardian (Main at 65) and Warden (61) player, It's very clear to me that wardens have the good end of the stick with the Isengard updates that are incoming.
Although that's not exactly their fault ...

The good thing about a warden is that you can buff your avoidances, as required, via gambits. These have no cool-down and can be slotted nicely into a general tanking rotation to make you you're running high end BPE at all times.
With the incoming changes to stats, you will be able to stack Vitality and Will/Fate and it won't effect your avoidances as much because of how you can buff them all the time.
Meanwhile us Guardians (I say us.. because it's my main) will have to continue to build Might/Agility/Vitality/Will/Fate in order to remain balanced and have good BPE and decent Power and ICPR.
Now I understand that Wardens wear medium armour but with the stupidly high avoidance buffs you'll be achieving and being able to stack Vitality as high as you want to, All I can see is dark days ahead for Guardians in terms of tanking in raids.
Why would you take a Guardian, who has lower avoidances and lower morale over a warden who has vastly higher morale and can stack avoidances, with no cd, whenever they want?

I don't mind wardens, I have one and I raid with one but I'm probably going to be retiring my Guardian with the changes IF the class is not improved drastically.

Right now,as it stand we're miles behind wardens when IsG hits.
#2 | Tromador on 22 June 2011 15:11
Well, if you retire your guardian in a huff, then we'll need to find another one as the instant-aggro generation of the Guardian is absolutely essential in many scenarios, such as Durin's Bane.

Good guardians will still be required.

I'm sorry that the class isn't getting the buffs you wanted, but I'm pretty sure that taking your bat and ball home is a good answer.
#3 | John on 22 June 2011 15:20
We did not need buffs ... until the stat changes were announced.

Now because of those changes, we're so screwed that anyone with any sort of sense will take a warden over a Guardian.

Oh and wardens have a forced taunt which can be spammed with no cd ... so it's not essential that a guard is there.

But anyways ... This isn't about not getting what I wanted. I wanted nothing. I love where a Guardian is atm. The thing is that now with the stat changes, and nothing to help compensate for that with the guardian changes .. we NEED buffs. Buffs which just are not coming.

It's Moria for a Guardian all over again.
#4 | Tromador on 22 June 2011 15:35
I hope you'll respect my opinion well enough, as a guardian player to say simply this:

We got through Moria just fine.

In the end it doesn't matter much. As far as raiding and instancing goes, you're in our raids and our instances and have no plans to suddenly replace you in some kind of "raid min-max the party" scenario.
#5 | Ardhuial on 22 June 2011 16:27
I doubt we would all be happy if some shiny other class came and stole all our shiny's. This is a natural response of.. IT'S NOT FAIR *HUFF*.

I myself have had my huffs in my time about my own class the 10 seconds WS on removal thing being one of them so please just remember what I am saying when you read Johns HUFF reaction and I am sure Craig will also have the same reaction as John also, maybe not to the same extent but still give them there chance to HUFF as they have all rights to HUFF as much as they want.

That's all I have to say...

Apart from its the initial diary which means there is not a lot of detail so maybe just wait and see?
#6 | Tromador on 22 June 2011 16:52
"I doubt we would all be happy if some shiny other class came and stole all our shiny's."

Crowd control, once the purview of the LM and now frankly not. I still like to play my LM though.
#7 | Ardhuial on 22 June 2011 16:57
CC is a LM's ballpark, hunters, burgs etc are no where near as good as a LM. It would be if they gave burgs for example the ability to do all a LM does anti stun, stun, buff, debuff, share power and the million other things a LM does.

This is what devs seem to be doing between wardens and guardians, so you can see why john has the initial *HUFF Give me back my ball I am going home* reaction. And it is early days so John don't HUFF too much.
#8 | Tromador on 22 June 2011 17:41
I suppose I'm confused by the logic. I'm reading that because the balance between wardens and guardians is (possibly) changing, John will no longer enjoy playing his guardian with us, so will retire it.

I don't see how what a warden may or may not have affects if a guardian is fun. If it was fun today, it's surely fun tomorrow and pfft to the wardens.

I'm not going to stop playing my guardian.
#9 | Ardhuial on 22 June 2011 17:46
He has totally over reacted yes I agree with that but if he gets his HUFF over with he will then look at it in a different light.

Wardens are being able to stack morale and stack avoidances at any time and in theory warden can have 75% B/P/E due to being able to spam avoidances. This is the reason John is pissed.
#10 | John on 22 June 2011 19:18
Guardians have needed an update for some time. Skills need revising and even legendary skills need an updating but as much as they need doing, the class as a whole is still relatively strong and can do it's job.
Stat changes incoming do not allow Guardians to stack any-more vitality than what they can possibly get AND continue to have good avoidances. 30% block, 25% evade and 25% parry will be almost impossible to achieve while maintaining a decent amount of morale, power and icpr.

Yes they have fixed a few things but really, what they have given Guardians is fluff. No amount of fluff will make up for the sheer nerf that we are now going to suffer because of the stupid stat changes that the game is throwing up with Isengard.

My problem with all this is not the fact that the balance between wardens and guardians is changing, but more that there is/was/are no reasons for this balance to be addressed. Wardens are just as good as guardians are, period. It's a different method of tanking, one which is very effective.

Wardens have gained a significant buff from their changes and the rolling stat changes, unlike Guardians who, although nothing has been nerfed skill wise, as being nerfed under the radar with their stats.

Taking a Guardian into a raid/instance/whatever when Isengard comes is going to present an entire heap of problems, with the new stat ... Finesse.

Finesse works two fold, raising how much you can strike a boss for, and how much you can BPE a boss as a bonus. It also, however works in the opposite, as a boss with finesse will hit you more and BPE your attacks. A Guardian with 30/25/25 on their avoidances will not bpe this much if the enemy has finesse on it. However, a warden will still bpe more than a guardian as they are able to raise their avoidances to 75% each, for 20 seconds, with 0 cool-down.

Simply, Wardens will require less attention to heal in a group and become the #1 tanks for pugs etc etc.

Again, not to mention the sheer volume of morale a warden will be able to stack makes them even more appealing.

This may not be much to alot of people but for someone like myself, who pugs quite alot, this is potentially game breaking. It's going to be a chore, doing anything other than kin stuff and well, being a chore is not fun.

It doesn't matter how much I enjoy the class, these changes will make it not fun very quickly.

/rantoff
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